Shipbucket

Krakatoa has suggested I put up a cruiser challenge along the lines of his 25,000ton battleship, so here goes:

Argentina had two cruisers with 7.5in guns, Almirante Brown class. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARA_Almira ... _%28C-1%29
In the 1930s both Brazil and Chile looked for cruisers to match them.
Vickers offered Brazil a series of designs, about 9000tons with 3x2 8in, 32 knots.
The Chilean spec was 32 knots, about 9000tons, 2x3 8in 4x24.7in (superfiring?) or 6x2 4.1in; 4x2 40mm; 2x2 20mm; 2x4 21" TT
four aircraft.
John Brown offered a ship with 3x2 8in, and I believe there was a Swedish design. Chile hawked their needs all round Europe, but after London Treaty 1936 no-one was building 8in. I'm not revealing more details of those real designs yet, but it might be instructive to compare real shipbuilders' efforts with yours. They are published if you know where to look!

So, the challenge is: Consider yourself a European or USA shipyard, late 1930s but with no Treaty restrictions. Offer 8in gun ships (or ships with more 6in if you think that better) to Brazil and/or Chile bearing the Chilean spec in mind to set against Al. Brown and 25 de Mayo. I think designs should have some sort of "family resemblance" to your shipyard's earlier designs (if any).

An interesting challenge indeed. A couple of thoughts already percolating on possible designs.

The time span is 1935-39?

Another interesting challenge!

I never seem to get time to sit down and draw up something for these. I guess I could kitbash a Surrey fairly easily though into something of export standard.

Hum looks interesting, a few questions /

- are we hard limited to the Chilean spec ?
- when ? post 36 for no treaty means that they will never be delivered IMO (but that does give me a nice idea for a RN ship )

I agree with Hood the Surrey/Canarias class would be the obvious type to go with. (Hood why is your HMS Manchester not in the archive ?)

Huuum...I'm thinking about in some designs maybe I'll join^^

"Are we limited to the Chilean spec?" No. Those builders who did respond were not. Take the spec as some indication of what Chile wanted, not what could be supplied. The nearer to existing designs, the quicker the delivery and the lower the cost. Chile asked for triple 8in, but IIRC only USA actually had any, while responses in UK and Sweden offered 3x2 8in. Otherwise, to design a triple would extend the timescale. But don't let that stop you. RN was looking towards triple 8in when the war started.
"post 36 for no treaty means that they will never be delivered IMO" It does, and none were, nor the smaller cruisers Chile asked for nearer the war. Work if you like on a Hitler Z-Plan timescale of no war before 1944, with ships designed up to say 1939. The "No treaty" was simply to allow 8in guns, and ships over 8000tons - that is to allow designs which were actually sketched out. Italy and Holland were approached, but warned off by UK diplomacy following the 1936 treaty, which also intended to approach Japan to ask them to keep to a treaty they hadn't signed. I'd be interested to see a US offer, or even a German one. Germany might have offered to sell them Seydlitz, but that I think was too big. That Chile wanted to pay in nitrates, not in money, put some builders off!
I don't think I give too much away if I say John Brown offered what was in effect a Southampton with three twin 8in, until they were told the 1936 London Treaty meant they couldn't build one even for Chile.
If any of you know the RN 1934/35 Light Cruiser study, Design T of 5,500tons, a sort of Arethusa with two triple 6in, might be scaled up to the Chilean spec. But that's surely enough hints?
Imagine all the commercial yards desperate for orders. They hadn't had foreign orders for years! (except La Argentina)

Having all of Europe to choose from, one of the best cruiser designs was the La Galissonnière class cruisers. Replacing the triple 6" with twin 8" should give an excellent small CA type cruiser.



Details as follows:
Class and type: Almirante Cochrane class, Heavy cruiser.
Displacement: 8,000 tons (standard) 9520 tons (full load)
Length: 179 m (587 ft)
Beam: 18.2 m (59 ft)
Draught: 5.35 m (17.6 ft)

Propulsion: 2-shaft Parsons single reduction geared turbines 4 Indret boilers 84,000 shp (63,000 kW)
Speed: 33 knots
Range: 7,000 nmi (13,000 km; 8,100 mi) at 12 knots (22 km/h; 14 mph)
6,800 nmi (12,600 km; 7,800 mi) at 14 knots (26 km/h; 16 mph)
5,500 nmi (10,200 km; 6,300 mi) at 18 knots (33 km/h; 21 mph)
1,650 nmi (3,060 km; 1,900 mi) at 34 knots (63 km/h; 39 mph)

Complement: 550

Armament: 6 x 203mm/55 Modèle 1931 guns (3 × 2)
8 × 90 mm (3.5 inch) anti-aircraft (4 × 2)

4 × 550mm (21.7 inch) torpedo tubes (2 × 2)

Armour: main belt: 105 mm (4.1 in)
end bulkheads: 30 mm (1.2 in)
sides: 120 mm (4.7 in)
deck: 38 mm (1.5 in)
turrets: 100 mm (3.9 in)
tower: 95 mm (3.7 in)

Aircraft carried: up to 4 GL-832, later 2 Loire 130 flying boats
1 catapult

That has a lot going for it. Don't forget Brazil and Chile want ships.
K, I've had a look at twin 8in on Surrey and Duquesne. Are yours just a little bit small?

I took the twins off the Algerie done by Karle94. I will have a look at the others to see if they should be a bit bigger.

Edit: replaced the turrets with ones off the Suffren class.

Just out of curiosity (as I'm tempted to try joining this challenge but probably won't find time to do so): are we limited to real-life armament/equipment (and "real" countries of origin) or is it possible to draw ships with purely fictional equipment?