Zhenghe Treasure voyages AD 1421

[bezobrazov]

What I'm very curious about is a knowledgeable technical explanation of how Tate Chinese built these, apparently gigantic seagoing vessels with the technological standards of those days. What kind of timber was used? How was the hull constructed to withstand the enormous impact of the seas, for instance. We know from our Western experience, that hulls longer than ca. 300 ft made of wood were virtually an impossibility till the diagonal bracing system pioneered by the Danish naval architect Hohlenberg, and Sir Robert Seppings in Britain were introduced around 1800. I don't believe the Chinese had mastered that technique already in the 15th c. So, how did the Chinese then prevent the hulls of their treasure fleet vessels from hogging and sagging, and, quite simply break apart?
In other words, I cannot give much credence to the plausibility of their sizes - not in light of what we know of shipbuilding technology in the 15th c. Whether in the West or in the East!
Till such indisputable proof has been presented I have to judge these vessels with lengths over 450-500 ft as sheer imaginations!

[Rodondo]

My thoughts exactly, I'm not sure the limits of Chinese indigenous hard-words but being the son of a carpenter I've never heard of any being renowned for their strength, and I'm rather dubious that bamboo could last long without splintering as it does after awhile of exposure

[TimothyC]

Whilst I'm dubious of their immense size, unless they constantly needed repair and never actually went on the big seagoing voyages (As the bulk of these vessels would have produce a huge amount of drag against a rather small sail area), its a nice drawing though (being unfamiliar with Junk rigging), would it be possible to show the sails hard to port?

Due to limited English proficiency, I just read your message half. . . . .However, you probably meant to say I understand.

First, the Chinese boat used is "hard sail", "hard sail" is mainly used plant leaves woven, hard and heavy, but by high winds efficiency; may rotate around the mast, to windward. Because there supporting bone, so for quality, "sail" requirement is very low, even breaking a lot of holes does not matter.

The English phrase "Hard to Port" means fully turned to port (when you are on the ship facing the front of the ship, Port is to your left), and Rodondo is asking to see the back side of the sails, if only to add to the quality of your drawing.

[bezobrazov]

Thanks for your insightful support Rodondo. I could add, as a comparison, that the famous large French two-decker 80-gun ships of the 18th. C. Were around 195-197 ft long and they, equally infamously were known to sag and hog, thus reducing their effective lifespan. And those were the longest vessels we have on record before Seppings and Symonds entered the picture, altering the conditions for wooden ship-building.

[Conrad]

As wzw007323 has noted, it's unlikely that the 44 zhang treasure ship was seaworthy, but rather an Imperial pomp boat. Certainly similar vessels existed even in the far reaches of the past.

In any case this thread would be incomplete without a depiction of a treasure ship sized to match contemporary accounts.

[Rodondo]

Indeed, they spur to mind something like the Nemi Ships which were 230 and 240 ft in length and confined to still lake waters.

[wzw007323]

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/hqgj/jryw/ ... 26628.html

[acelanceloet]

re- sagging and hogging: I am not entirely certain this counted 500 years ago, but as far as I know an ship that does not bend under different loads is an stiff ship, which is actually weaker against incoming pressures. it might be that the wood dislikes this though?

[Thiel]

Sagging and hogging are permanent deformations of the hull.

[Rodondo]

@Thiel, well permanent but it is rectifiable, I remember they corrected the deformations in the USS Constitution's keel with specially measured keel blocks in the dry-dock

The question is, if these ships existed, there still should be some remains of them if there were a few

Eugh, ChinaDaily is IMHO one of the most dismal media outlets in the world, reporting nothing but nationalist crap,

This is currently the world's largest wooden boat

Umm, no not even close

shows that a strong China is good for world peace and stability.

Ummm no again, these trips were nothing like that