Shipbucket

I believe it is allowed to show guns at 45 degree elevation if it was not possible to train the mount to the 0 degree angle (like for example many early AA/ high angle guns could not be lowered to 0 degrees).

I have tried to redrawn the gun with 0° barrel but it looks ugly (seems that i still have no hand at drawing small objects) , the arguments itself seems to leave a "grey" area where the choice could be made at drawer preference; it's absolutley not my intention to not follow suggestions, but for now the AA guns will remain like they look on the IJN parts sheet

Here's the completed Tosa:



and a little bonus


(How this one should be classified?)

the second one is a real (even ugly) ship...
but was she already equipped with lifeboats and anchors???

Yes she was (see 1 and 2, after construction stopped in 1922 because of the Washington Naval Treaty Tosa was outfitted with a small bridge and funnel, then remains unused until 1924, then becomes a gunnery target and test ship before beign scuttled in 1925.

it might be worth it to draw an black waterline (and move the ship on the template along it) to the waterline the ship had in unfinished state. also, the painting style. and, question, did she receive all 3 (4) props?
also, it seems wrong that this ship has the same structure below the bridge on both drawings, but on the completed one suddenly she has doors and windows in it? :O also, on the pics, the 'low' part of the armoured belt at the bow seems a lot shorter.

I would also like to note that it is interesting to see how little the guns and machinery weights compared with the other equipment of an battleship: her hull only moved up by 1-1.5 m by the removal of these systems. anything known about the displacements in both 'states' ?

BB1987 wrote:About Hiraga, what if i also draw his treaty battleship? obviously after finding good sources... who knows

YES! Please do! Actually, there were two designs, one by Hiraga and the other by Fujimoto. Here's some sources that might help.

http://i25.tinypic.com/2prd1jl.jpg
http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/ ... 386r95.jpg
http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/ ... 386onw.jpg
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/21 ... 6.gif/sr=1
http://www.combinedfleet.com/furashita/hiragaf1.jpg

-Matt

acelanceloet wrote:it might be worth it to draw an black waterline (and move the ship on the template along it) to the waterline the ship had in unfinished state. also, the painting style. and, question, did she receive all 3 (4) props?

All point fixed; about the props (4), Tosa was launched in december 1921, 2 months before beign put on hold and 5 months before beign canceled because of the Washinton Treaty, as all the pics of ships under construction i've seen shows the propellers fitted before launch i assumed that she indeed has all four on place in may 1922.

acelanceloet wrote:also, it seems wrong that this ship has the same structure below the bridge on both drawings, but on the completed one suddenly she has doors and windows in it? :O also, on the pics, the 'low' part of the armoured belt at the bow seems a lot shorter.

Both the reference drawing and the official model shows those portholes and doors on that parto of the superstructure, at the same time the picture of the unfinished Tosa shows bare metal plats with riveting visible; my only assumption about it would be that when completion of Tosa was halted the workers roughly plated that section in that crude manner in order to make possible fitting the small open bridge.
Also, fixed the Armour belt.


Emperor_andreas:
The Fujimoto was already done by ALVAMA, as for Hiraga's design i would probably ask Alvama too, because Hiraga's "nelson setup" (aka all main guns forward) eventually evolved in fujimoto's design itself; the other one with 4 guns (and triplets superfiring the twins) should be ok, but i must be sure before to start anything.

seems likely. on the props though: there is no way she could have propelled those props, are you sure she wasn't docked later on and had them removed?

on the plating: it seems unlikely they would have been fixed at all if that was the case, seeing that the back of that room is not fitted here: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... p_Tosa.jpg
I am not familiar with ship construction of that year, but might it be possible that the cutouts were done after fitting the plates of the ship? it seems unlikely against the background of modern section construction, but hell, you never know xD.

acelanceloet wrote:seems likely. on the props though: there is no way she could have propelled those props, are you sure she wasn't docked later on and had them removed?

Obviously yes, she never had the possibilities to move under her own power, still i had not found any reference supporting the removal of the props , but at the same time no one that says clearly that they where left in place; so it could be any of the two possibilities, unless obviously i found the answer.

acelanceloet wrote:on the plating: it seems unlikely they would have been fixed at all if that was the case, seeing that the back of that room is not fitted here: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... p_Tosa.jpg
I am not familiar with ship construction of that year, but might it be possible that the cutouts were done after fitting the plates of the ship? it seems unlikely against the background of modern section construction, but hell, you never know xD.

Then i'm in your same situation here

Excellent work on Tosa, I'd been waiting for this ship for some time.