belowdeck parts

[acelanceloet]

here is an short write up for the new 'integrated system parts'. I'd like opinions, suggestions and comments on it......

the goals:
- integrating the belowdeck and 'regular' parts in one part sheet system
- making the belowdeck parts easier (/possible) to manage
- making it possible to design and understand shipbucket ships from an 'systems' perspective, as done in real life ship design.

done by:
- restarting or restructuring the belowdeck parts thread

current problems:
- what exactly are belowdeck parts and what exactly is not
- do parts with no deck penetration fit on the sheet, yes or no? and with very little?
- the belowdeck parts thread is getting large and hard to manage.

solutions as here proposed:
- new thread with separate posts for different type of parts
- alternatively, separate threads for these types of parts, possibly in an separate section from the parts sheet section.
- parts all separately in images, or in groups. what the image or group represents is written in the image
- every image gets an short bit of information in text. name, years in use, weight, navies in use, for example. this of course depends a bit on the system type.
- all parts are considered full, as in with belowdeck parts if they have, unless noted otherwise.
- sheets which bundle parts which are also 'full', such as the USN missile launcher sheet, can be included, but in their own post. these are the only ones from the thread that make it to the main site.
- the different posts/threads of this setup would, as a start, be:
* GMLS
* guns
* FCS & radar
* launchers other then GMLS (mortars, torpedo tubes, depth charge racks)
* propulsion & generators
- space would be reserved for one or two additional categories in case these would emerge, unless moderators allow for posts to be 'input' in the first page(s) when threads are used instead of posts in a thread this is of course no problem
- the parts would be sorted first on nation and then on year (or model number, which more or less follows year most of the time)

thanks in advance for helping me out a bit on improving this

[heuhen]

I will say. Anything that have major impact on he layout of the ship should be in the bellow deck part sheet. So how much impact do an radar have on bellow deck... well computer.

My list would be:

1. Missile weapons (generations)
2. Guns, guns with no bellow deck would only need an info about they have no bellow deck part, but an ready magazine next to (and bellow deck...hm)
3. Engine room... layout/size. etc.
4. Radar... that would be computer and CIC (different CIC size from an handpicked various classes of different nations and size).
5. how much space and Hangar take. (standards. three sizes.
6. oh also ASW.

[Shipright]

Still no love for my generators/motor?!

[erik_t]

I haven't been following the thread much. Generators and motors in terms of ship-service, or electric propulsion? I'd generally expect the former is small enough to be well-represented, but I'd like to see the latter.

[acelanceloet]

@ Erik, Shipright: he means this stuff
http://www.shipbucket.com/forums/viewto ... 352#p87352
which I need to copy, label, split and place on the front page, which I keep forgetting. will try to do it soon.
hell, things like this are why I want to change the belowdeck parts into something more managable, I have no idea what is drawn and what is posted and all unless I get looking for it, let alone that others can see that.

@ Heuhen: but radars have major inpact on mast arrangements and required generators. thus they have an big impact on ship arrangement as well.

computer and CIC space is just next to no reference for. every system requires some cabinets, but these are often not well referenced. on newer systems they are, but the farther back we go, the less we know about them.

now, back to discussing my proposal

[Shipright]

I was just joking ace, you are doing an awesome job out of the kindness of your heart!

[acelanceloet]

well, you reminded me again at exactly the right moment with your post, now it's on

[Hood]

A thorny issue. Here is my view.
These belowdeck parts have most value for AU work or for educated guessing on never-weres that are only sketchy outlines. For most real-world drawings we just need the topside stuff because we know the rest fits.

For the early missile systems, like Talos and Sea Slug, and ASW systems like Ikara, the belowdecks parts are huge. Even for large calibre guns the parts are fairly big (a bit like icebergs really, most of it is hidden from view). So this makes integration into the current weapon sheets hard without them becoming too big and hard to logically organise to make sure they look orderly and neat. I will try to integrate the current RN belowdecks parts on the forthcoming RN updates, and indeed some are already on the current sheet. But with some navies like the USN the sheet could easily double in size.

Drawing the cabinets for radars and fire-control systems seems unnecessary and difficult, beyond acquiring hard to get layouts and diagrams. I doubt they would get much practical use. There needs to be some level of cut-off before we start having the add the bunks, cafeteria messing, ship's washing machine and the heads in order to work out internal space. As I said earlier, all that applies mainly to AU work.

[acelanceloet]

I agree with you on most of your points indeed, Hood.
while the belowdeck parts become part of the regular parts sheets, for example with the USN GMLS sheet we have chosen to split this part of entirely. that way, the USN sheets didn't become cluttered with belowdeck parts. but, that was only done after ALL USN GMLS were drawn, and thus cannot be done so easily for the british sheets, let alone every other one there is with even less drawn.

my proposals for making it an system sheet is in short this: the parts would not be looked at as purely belowdeck parts, but as complete systems. this does not include cabinets, as that is indeed just no use (even I go that much in detail with AU ships)
for systems I would like to add things like these, https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/632 ... %20FCS.png which are indeed useful for only 3 things.... own designs, sketchy never build designs, but more importantly (for me at least) understanding existing designs. that is the true reason I started belowdeck parts, as in any way possible they will be invisible when the drawing is finished.

these systems will only include that impact the ships design, mainly propulsion, electrical generating, weapons and sensors. it could include control systems, but that is quite sketchy and differs too much between ships to really draw parts for it

[heuhen]

before we start having the add the bunks, cafeteria messing, ship's washing machine and the heads in order to work out internal space.

you rang!