Complaint in FD scale Vehicles 13

[odendasf]

Hello everyone

eswube was complaining in the FD scale Vehicles 13 thread that two of my drawings appear in the JPEG format. Both drawings were done in the PNG format in Paint.net as prescribed by paragraph 8 of the Shipbucket Style Guide & Standards Manual, and both images were uploaded as such in DeviantArt and the FD scale Vehicles 13 thread. However, now they appear as JPEG images as eswube has correctly noted. As a test I am going to load the same two images to see if the same thing happens.





Then eswube complained that there was too much shading in the following drawing, especially on the tarpaulin cover and tyres. When it comes to the tyres, I have used the same tire shading as was used on a drawing of the GTK Boxer by Ro-Po Max. I have used the same aforementioned drawing to develop my own colour palette consisting of 11 shades for each colour. Although it is more than the 5 shades as set out in paragraph 4 of the Shipbucket Style Guide & Standards Manual, I have found that many artists are using a colour palette of more than 5 shades per colour. Is there another Style Guide & Standards Manual for FD Scale Drawings I am not aware of?

[acelanceloet]

If there are any drawings with 11 shades in the FD scale archive, I would consider that an very bad thing.......

Do note that Ro-Po rarely posts stuff here as they work outside the standards used by most of us in many of their artworks.

[eswube]

Although some works by Ro-Po Max were uploaded to the archive, in principle, his works tend to be outside the SB/FD style, as otherwise masterfuly made they are, so aren't really an example to follow in SB/FD context (outside of it, it's - of course - different matter).

FD style has, in practice, some slight differences from "basic" SB, but it still follows the spirit (and most letters too) fairly closely, though it doesn't have the dedicated Style Guide like SB. So, although quite a lot of artists doing FD works use more than 5 shades, it's never much more than that (I use 6, somebody once mentioned using 7, but 5 are generally sufficient). Also, while there is no specific level up to which number of shades is ok, and beyond which it's not ok, it definitely has to be kept in single-digit numbers and very preferably in the middle of that range.

[Hood]

I find 5 or 6 shades sufficient - usually a base shade, two highlights and two shadow, sometimes three shadow with the brightest highlight and darkest shadow used sparingly and only when necessary.

[Just A CF-18 Here]

Personly, I dont find anything wrong with using more than said number of shades, I use a colour palette (designed for SB ships) for my drawings which has around 11 or so shades, but, I normaly use 5-6. Using 11 shades on a drawing (in FD scale) is a little overkill. I would agree with Hood though, 5-6 mabye 7 is fine enough.

The arguement about using Ro-Po's shading ways however, I wouldnt recommed new Artists to follow it. Yes his drawings are very good and detailed, but, he is a more expericened artist at the end of the day.

[odendasf]

Hello everyone.

First, I want to thank acelanceloet, eswube, Hood and CF-18 for their valuable input. Sorry for responding only now, but I had to figure out WHY the Shipbucket rules are what they are.

After the comments from acelanceloet and eswube I thought to myself: “You don’t need such nonsense in your life.” Then I started to read the Shipbucket Style Guide & Standards Manual again and searched the forum for more guidance and advice. At first, I found myself in a swamp of accusations that the Shipbucket rules are archaic and outdated, then I went through a “free to leave the forum” door after which I landed up somewhere in North Korea. After escaping North Korea, I started to find explanations why Shipbucket and FD drawings are drawn in a certain style.

The reason I have decided to contribute on this forum was because of the amazing organizational charts done by some artists, particularly those of Caddaric79. Since I want to draw unit structures of the German Bundeswehr, I have found that the FD drawings will be an excellent resource. However, not all equipment of the Bundeswehr has been drawn. Since artists like Darthpanda and Glorfindel have created most of the Bundeswehr equipment drawings that are available in Shipbucket, I have decided to use the colour palettes of Darthpanda, Glorfindel and Caddaric79 as a base to develop my own colour palette, so that my drawings will sort of match their drawings in an organizational chart drawing.

Based on the advice of the abovementioned artists and others, I have settled on a 6-shades-per-colour palette: Bright shade, Highlight shade, Base shade, Shadow shade, Dark Shadow shade and a Darkest Shadow shade (I think eswube has called it “semi-colour” somewhere). I have also taken note of the advice of eswube to adjust the Lum-value by a value of between 20 – 40 when creating the different shades for a particular base colour. However, I have found that it can become problematic for dark base colours like what is used in the NATO 3-tone colour scheme. As a result, my Darkest Shadow shades appear almost black. Here is my latest drawing with which I have tried to keep as close to the FD style as possible. I did not use the Bright shade of my colour palette on this drawing, as I will reserve it for only raised surface detail on Highlight shade areas.

[eswube]

Yes, some people complain about style constraints from time to time, but the point is, that it's meant to be fairly straightforward and interchangeable (or at least easy to adapt).

"Semi-colour" - I think it was rather "semi-contour" - meaning, that it's primarily used in places, where the actual black (used for contours, right angles and the like) wouldn't be used, but which are "almost-like-contours"/sharp-ish breaks in surface etc.

The adjustment of Lum-value by 20-40 was meant mostly for colors that are not too dark, as otherwise, of course, there is not enough value to adjust before going down to black. In these situations I adjust by smaller values, but still try to keep the intervals between them reasonably regular (especially between "big three" - highlight/basic/shadow, as these would be used for greatest percentage of painted area).

And last but not least, the matter that certainly is of greatest interest to You, which is commentary on Your new drawing. About this I can only say: Well done!

I would just suggest to try making wheels bit more rounded (on their outer contour, hubs are ok).
Also, although typically rubber tires are drawn with black outer contour, for some time myself (but also few other artists, I believe) tend to draw that outer contour in darkest shadow shade ("semi-contour"), as this isn't the most solid-est of shapes, after all (due to inherent elasticity of rubber and, where relevant, pressure in the tire). So I would suggest such option for Your consideration.
(This is an extension of style rule that has sails (and similar things) outlined in dark shade instead of black - You've already correctly applied this principle on tarpaulin.)
(mind that the line where rubber tire meets hub would still need to be drawn in black, because the hub is solid)

[Hood]

Yes, sometimes we can be a bit blunt about the styling rules and guidelines. They are not always necessarily easy to grasp at first, many chafe against them but they do evolve over time. As Eswube says, the key and vital thing is ease of adaption so someone else can either build on your work or add to it.

As to the drawing, it looks good. Eswube makes some very good points about the tyres. The more you draw the more you get the hang of contours and shading.

[odendasf]

Hello everyone.

eswube and Hood, thank you again for your positive comments. eswube, thank you for the excellent suggestion that the outer contour of the tires should be drawn in the darkest shadow shade ("semi-contour"). Going forward I will keep this in mind for all flexible materials. Regarding the shape of the wheels, I have found that a 21-pixel diameter wheel tends to appear either diamond-shaped or square. After trying everything to make it rounder, the square shape looks better for me than a diamond shape.

Herewith the Anhänger 4-Rad 4 t again with the tires outlined in the almost black darkest shadow shade. I have also added some shading to the tie rope where it goes under the tarpaulin.

[eswube]

I have a feeling that it's possible to make wheels more rounder without making them diamond-shaped, but (within certain limits) a matter of perception/taste.


As for adding shade to tie rope... I played with such things a bit in the past, but eventually I thought that shading for things like ropes, wires etc. (things that are 1-pixel thick and have no contour) are just unnecessary complication (also for a person who could want to adapt the drawing), but that's Your time and effort - and Your satisfaction.