Kingdom of Grays Harbor

[Zephyr]

a little more done on the BB. Comments welcome.

Really. Make comments. Improve it. Point out mistakes.

Seriously.

[Novice]

An interesting design, based I believe on Royal Navy practice, but I think the casemates guns are too close to each other. Maybe you want to space them more

[acelanceloet]

That really reminds me of the Cuniberti design
Keep an eye on the space those beam turrets need to rotate, otherwise it looks very good!

[Zephyr]

That really reminds me of the Cuniberti design
Keep an eye on the space those beam turrets need to rotate, otherwise it looks very good!

They're single turrets, but yeah, i keep forgetting to add the indents behind them. Thanks. And good eye, it is based loosely on the Cuniberti design.

[Zephyr]

I think I'm done with the BB now.
Two classes, a pre-dread, and the first dread for my navy. Identical designs except for main armament. The back story goes that 6 pre-dreads were authorized. Early in the design phase, it was determined that 5 would be built conventionally, and one would have the secondary armament, 4x2 9.2" guns, replaced with 4x1 12" guns. Considered a single class until 1912 when the Royal Sovereign was put in its own class.

If you see anything amiss with the springsharp data, let me know. I am not infallible.


Royal Sovereign, Grays Harbor Battleship laid down 1902 (Engine 1904)

Displacement:
24,676 t light; 25,875 t standard; 29,853 t normal; 33,035 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
588.50 ft / 585.00 ft x 98.00 ft x 27.00 ft (normal load)
179.37 m / 178.31 m x 29.87 m x 8.23 m

Armament:
4 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (2x2 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1902 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns in single mounts, 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1902 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
10 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1902 Model
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
11 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1902 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 8,141 lbs / 3,692 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 125

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 373.23 ft / 113.76 m 11.26 ft / 3.43 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 211.75 ft / 64.54 m 11.26 ft / 3.43 m
Upper: 4.00" / 102 mm 373.23 ft / 113.76 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 98 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
8.00" / 203 mm 373.23 ft / 113.76 m 25.22 ft / 7.69 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 9.00" / 229 mm 10.0" / 254 mm
2nd: 12.0" / 305 mm 9.00" / 229 mm 10.0" / 254 mm

- Armour deck: 5.00" / 127 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 36,298 shp / 27,078 Kw = 21.00 kts
Range 12,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 7,160 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
1,135 - 1,476

Cost:
£2.227 million / $8.906 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,018 tons, 3.4 %
Armour: 12,087 tons, 40.5 %
- Belts: 2,669 tons, 8.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 2,786 tons, 9.3 %
- Armament: 2,269 tons, 7.6 %
- Armour Deck: 4,156 tons, 13.9 %
- Conning Tower: 207 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 3,630 tons, 12.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,942 tons, 26.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,176 tons, 17.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
35,886 lbs / 16,278 Kg = 41.5 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 8.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
Metacentric height 6.9 ft / 2.1 m
Roll period: 15.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.41
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.53

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.675
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.97 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.19 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -2.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.50 ft / 1.07 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 29.00 ft / 8.84 m
- Forecastle (18 %): 29.00 ft / 8.84 m (15.50 ft / 4.72 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 28.50 ft / 8.69 m (15.50 ft / 4.72 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (18 %): 15.50 ft / 4.72 m
- Stern: 15.50 ft / 4.72 m
- Average freeboard: 20.04 ft / 6.11 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 83.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 141.1 %
Waterplane Area: 44,930 Square feet or 4,174 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 133 lbs/sq ft or 649 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.77
- Longitudinal: 1.12
- Overall: 0.80
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather


Royal Sovereign, Grays Harbor Battleship laid down 1902 (Engine 1904)

Displacement:
24,696 t light; 25,875 t standard; 29,853 t normal; 33,035 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
588.50 ft / 585.00 ft x 98.00 ft x 27.00 ft (normal load)
179.37 m / 178.31 m x 29.87 m x 8.23 m

Armament:
4 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (2x2 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1902 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 9.20" / 234 mm guns (4x2 guns), 389.34lbs / 176.60kg shells, 1902 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
10 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1902 Model
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
11 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1902 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 7,799 lbs / 3,538 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 125

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 373.23 ft / 113.76 m 11.26 ft / 3.43 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 211.75 ft / 64.54 m 11.26 ft / 3.43 m
Upper: 4.00" / 102 mm 373.23 ft / 113.76 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 98 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
8.00" / 203 mm 373.23 ft / 113.76 m 25.22 ft / 7.69 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 9.00" / 229 mm 10.0" / 254 mm
2nd: 12.0" / 305 mm 9.00" / 229 mm 10.0" / 254 mm

- Armour deck: 5.00" / 127 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 36,298 shp / 27,078 Kw = 21.00 kts
Range 12,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 7,160 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
1,135 - 1,476

Cost:
£2.191 million / $8.766 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 975 tons, 3.3 %
Armour: 12,402 tons, 41.5 %
- Belts: 2,669 tons, 8.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 2,786 tons, 9.3 %
- Armament: 2,584 tons, 8.7 %
- Armour Deck: 4,156 tons, 13.9 %
- Conning Tower: 207 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 3,630 tons, 12.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,690 tons, 25.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,156 tons, 17.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
34,932 lbs / 15,845 Kg = 40.4 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 8.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
Metacentric height 6.7 ft / 2.0 m
Roll period: 15.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 74 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.40
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.51

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.675
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.97 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.19 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -2.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.50 ft / 1.07 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 29.00 ft / 8.84 m
- Forecastle (18 %): 29.00 ft / 8.84 m (15.50 ft / 4.72 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 28.50 ft / 8.69 m (15.50 ft / 4.72 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (18 %): 15.50 ft / 4.72 m
- Stern: 15.50 ft / 4.72 m
- Average freeboard: 20.04 ft / 6.11 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 82.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 141.1 %
Waterplane Area: 44,930 Square feet or 4,174 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 129 lbs/sq ft or 628 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.75
- Longitudinal: 1.07
- Overall: 0.78
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Krakatoa]

The centre pair of single six inch casemate guns are too close together to be able to operate properly. On both drawings PD/BB.

[Novice]

The centre pair of single six inch casemate guns are too close together to be able to operate properly. On both drawings PD/BB.

That is what I said earlier

[Zephyr]

How much farther apart do they need to be?

[acelanceloet]

Well, to answer that, you have to keep in mind there is the rest of a gun and a crew behind the casemate and the barrel that is visible, which (if one gun is aimed forward and one aft) may not trouble each other, and may even have a bulkhead between them.

[erik_t]

Well, this is what it Baden looked like on the inside.

At an absolute minimum, I would figure to work the guns effectively you'd need maybe three times whatever's longer (projectile or cartridge) between breeches. The 155/45 cartridge was 865mm long, so that'd be 17px between breeches. The breeches are in turn about as far behind the circular rotating structure as the diameter of that structure, so I'd guess you need to add maybe eight pixels between the center two casemate guns.

I'm not an expert on this era or anything, but I think the overriding lesson was that it is better to have fewer workable guns than many guns that interfere with each other.