Hamilton class WHEC

[acelanceloet]

Well thats very nice work from you guys.

People, Is it so easy to forget how just couple of months ago I gave really serious rantings to everyone how SB is slowly turning into a place were certain individuals missuse their assumed status and position and bullies (new) people with pendatic asshatery over indifferent details. Specially if their work by change happens to be related to certain big western navies.
I thougth back then I got my concerns very well pointed out to everyone, and everyone (including the culprints this time) to agree how such is intoleratable and needs to be cut out...
...yet here we have a fine examble of what Exactly I don't want to see on SB pages.

I don't know if you count me in with the 'bullying' but I disagree. we are not bashing down a drawing, but we are commenting on something very basic that is being refused to be fixed.

even if it is invisible without using tools, for later editing these wrong colours are hell to work with. and isn't that the entire purpose of shipbucket, an uniform style so you can use parts and develop new drawings from them? hell, I find this kind of things more important then any detail on the ship, as it is an mistake, while the ships drawings are according to choice and reference. and a mistake very easy to fix, at that. note that this problem goes on with any colour on the drawings, making this near as irritating as the forbidden 'jpegged' images.

[Blackbuck]

To add to that, you'd be surprised at how many drawings on the main site end up with clouds of off-white and buggered pixels.

[Gollevainen]

Despite honest intentions, the end result is still this; one of very promising drawer left. Now The ball is completely on your guys side, so I suggest severe introspection of how things went the way they did. The art of giving critisism is very important to everyone who wish to conduct it in these pages.

Here are couple of points for everyone to consider

1) When OP has posted a drawing, specially something quite good like in this case, the first comments should not be broadside rejection in shape of "its allready drawn", "the naming is incorrect", "there is something wrong in it, I wont tell why or offer details, but ...."

A nice comment and praise is really cheap. Just few seccond worth of typing. and the drama it saves is priceless.

2) Everyone can suggest corrections. Thats how the communality works in SB. Also no one is forced to listen/heed from those suggestions. In the end its up to the artist and the administrators to sort out style-issue arguments when it comes to uploading. When the orginal artist clearly states that those corrections don't aply to his work or his position in opinion, one should leave it there, not push his own agenda with remarks of sloppynes or other degarating comments. If the work doesen't please you, drawn your own bloody ships with the fixes you think are correct.

Now what comes to the pixelations, its common proplem, and always existed, specially back in the early days when MConrads and few others used photoshop with gif. files and we others used paint. Lots of that non-transparent whiteness exist still in the older drawings, and Its not a big deal per se. Only proplem when someone else starts kitbashing ones work, but there the effort of cleaning naturally belongs to the kitbasher. Unless the whitness clearly starts show out for clear eye, we migth reject it from uploading, but in this case it was not so. It was only a case to start internet-bullying. I didn't even noticed it for blank eye, and I would have accepted it trough uploading at ease.

People who go trough others drawings with mignifying glasses to seek errors just to to get to post about them in the forums have always been the scourge of SB and something that has always disgusted me deeply. This case, where people actually takes other drawings into deep examination with PaintNet's layers to find transparency issues, must be on the top10 list BS I've ever came cross here.

[acelanceloet]

I agree a word of praise might have been in place. also, it very much surprised me he left. the only reason I continued to react on this matter was because he seemed not to understand what exactly we were pointing at.

however, I disagree on the issue that pixelation is a problem that is the problem of the author who modifies a drawing: I remember for example blackbuck redrawing the never build super T23 from scratch because the original was unworkable because of pixel errors. similar cases exist, less obvious. if a simple check like this can root out the pixelation errors when the drawing is still being made, why wouldn't we do so? I know I do for all my drawings.

the check that was done here by TJ and me has nothing to do with special functions, magnifying glasses or anything like that, but just the paintbucket tool found in any program.

while I regret how this went, it is not an case of bullying, as it was all done with good intentions and was meant to improve the quality of an already good drawing.

[Gollevainen]

I agree a word of praise might have been in place.

thats a good point to work on with. It takes time for everyone to learn the subtle nuances of social conduct in forum like this, and we all have made errors. Its just that In the last resort, its Me who gets to do the clean up.

however, I disagree on the issue that pixelation is a problem that is the problem of the author who modifies a drawing: I remember for example blackbuck redrawing the never build super T23 from scratch because the original was unworkable because of pixel errors. similar cases exist, less obvious. if a simple check like this can root out the pixelation errors when the drawing is still being made, why wouldn't we do so? I know I do for all my drawings.

On contrary, thats just good thing that people draw instead just kitbash. If some unfortunate errors leads people to make some effort of their own, all the better. Now there are naturally errors that are harmfull and destroys the idea of SB, but the background pixellation, specially when really inviciple for eye is not among them.

the check that was done here by TJ and me has nothing to do with special functions, magnifying glasses or anything like that, but just the paintbucket tool found in any program.

It was figure of speech The proplem lays in even starting to take the drawing into detail inspection to find errors.

while I regret how this went, it is not an case of bullying, as it was all done with good intentions and was meant to improve the quality of an already good drawing.

Thats what everyone says when they are accused of bullying. Some cases it migth be true even, but in the end, its from the perspective of the bullyed one, where we the diciplinery section must look at things.

I try to convince him to return and I hope you and others would heed from this bad examble and make it better in the future.

[Colosseum]

Well done guys, you literally made someone quit the site through your stupid pedantry and lack of social graces...

edit: ... and someone who was actually drawing real life ships from scratch. If it were up to me you'd both be banned for a month.

[ussnimitz1968]

I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to stay too especially since I haven't drawn anything good yet!

[nighthunter]

I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to stay too especially since I haven't drawn anything good yet!

That is exactly the kind of attitude we don't want newcomers having. You only get better by practicing. I for one look forward to seeing newer artist's drawings, and to advise them and help them improve.

[Gollevainen]

Just keep drawing. And generally if you guys feel yourself being cornered here or elsewere, just contact me and colo bravely.

[squizzy]

Wish i had seen this post a couple of days earlier and raised something.

I'll say this now as an author of the original Hamilton Class WLEC (USCG 715 series) and sub types that followed I personally saw no problem with now former SB member Sailor82 doing his version of the Hamilton Class WLEC in the Original first Build in fact i hadn't known much about the pre-FRAM WLECs until later research while drawing from scratch the waterline up from sourced waterline drawings on the mid 80's FRAM upgraded Hamilton Class WLEC which i was far more familiar with.

I'm glad and will give full credit to him that he did find a very reliable diagram which in-particularly included the underwater hull and did a fresh drawing of it. At the time beside drawing a fresh from scratch above the waterline hull, superstructure and some fittings I could only make do below that by using a pre drawn underwater hull from the parts sheet (which i believe D.P did) and both modify and reshape it accordingly from the only reasonably accurate clear source i could use of its underwater line and that was from a post-FRAM upgraded WLEC model and added it to the green hull drawing. While the as launched one i did i used a USCG painting of the first of class as a quick guided and info from yes "Wikipedia" to know what her original build fitting was.

In saying that I am actually very disheartened and extremely disappointed that we've lost a fellow Shipbucketter over this in fact This particular Class of USGC Cutter has been a "Curse" on SB since i first posted my WIP and later finial approved versions up a couple of years ago now as I got quickly attacked for drawing it when one of the other Shipbucketters that Claimed he had Dibs on it on their work-list (A very long work list he had i might add) and it lead to a near similar argument on the thread but was deescalated fairly quickly too.

Besides that i hope this doesn't happen to any future SB members and that both Colo and Golly have done a sterling job with this website and i hate to see it go down. lets just get back to drawing, helping each other out and making the archive bigger, better, improved and more diverse then ever Globally.

PS- Please don't misinterpret this rant as if i'm trying to be a moderator on the group please.