Republic of Texas

[Syzmo]

Great additions! Its been way too long since you posted anything on here. I was starting to go into withdraw.

[bezobrazov]

A very nice, aggressive looking design. However, a few issues, if i may:

A 6' secondary armament for a ship of this type is wholly out of question, which, I'd presume your Texian admirals would've told you. The reason is very simple: there's no way to differentiate between an 8" and a 6" shell splash. And, if you got 6" in addition, then your captains and admirals would be only too tempted to use them also on surface tarhets, making spotting extremely difficult.
5" is the biggest size I'd opt for, and you've got the 5/25 that I drew for the Northamptons to select. Since it's built in the US, and at the same time as the Northamptons, I'd settle for only four, as in their USN cousins. Also, I don't see any reason for your aft FCS atop the low tripod mast. I'd use that platform as an open AA-platform.
Finally, I'd cover the bridges with removable plastic window panes, as was done in the contemporary US cruisers.

[eltf177]

I agree with bezobrazov: mixing 8-inch and 6-inch guns is going to give Fire Control a huge headache. OTOH you mentioned this was only until a DP gun became available so not as big a problem.

I'm still playing around with the SS of Madisonville, the design works but is a crappy seaboat. I'm hoping I can fix that but maintaining 30 knots will be tough...

[bezobrazov]

OTOH you mentioned this was only until a DP gun became available so not as big a problem.

Except weight-wise. They will cause this, relatively narrow ship to swing violently sidewise, wrecking any chances for maintaining a stable gun platform.

[Redhorse]

I figured I'd post the Springsharp data for both ships, since there's questions about their feasibility.

First, the Madisonville Class:

1927 Destroyer Plan 1a, Republic of Texas Destroyer laid down 1928

Displacement:
858 t light; 895 t standard; 1,021 t normal; 1,122 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(336.45 ft / 325.00 ft) x 25.00 ft x (8.00 / 8.61 ft)
(102.55 m / 99.06 m) x 7.62 m x (2.44 / 2.62 m)

Armament:
3 - 5.00" / 127 mm 25.0 cal guns - 56.77lbs / 25.75kg shells, 150 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model
3 x Single mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
1 raised mount aft - superfiring
2 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 14.29lbs / 6.48kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1928 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
Weight of broadside 199 lbs / 90 kg
Main Torpedoes
6 - 21.0" / 533 mm, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m torpedoes - 0.862 t each, 5.170 t total
In 2 sets of deck mounted centre rotating tubes
2nd Torpedoes
6 - 21.0" / 533 mm, 12.00 ft / 3.66 m torpedoes - 0.862 t each, 5.170 t total
In 1 sets of deck mounted reloads
Main DC/AS Mortars
14 - 420.00 lbs / 190.51 kg Depth Charges + 14 reloads - 5.250 t total
in Stern depth charge racks

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 18,987 shp / 14,164 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 3,500nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 227 tons

Complement:
89 - 117

Cost:
£0.409 million / $1.635 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 47 tons, 4.6 %
- Guns: 24 tons, 2.3 %
- Weapons: 23 tons, 2.3 %
Machinery: 507 tons, 49.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 305 tons, 29.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 163 tons, 16.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
387 lbs / 176 Kg = 6.2 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.29
Metacentric height 1.0 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 10.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.39
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and small transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / 0.562
Length to Beam Ratio: 13.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.09 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 19.83 ft / 6.04 m, 16.22 ft / 4.94 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 16.22 ft / 4.94 m, 16.22 ft / 4.94 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 8.11 ft / 2.47 m, 8.11 ft / 2.47 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 8.11 ft / 2.47 m, 8.11 ft / 2.47 m
- Average freeboard: 12.45 ft / 3.80 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 167.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 124.1 %
Waterplane Area: 5,810 Square feet or 540 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 82 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 27 lbs/sq ft or 131 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.57
- Longitudinal: 1.79
- Overall: 0.63
Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

I usually struggle to get a good destroyer out of Springsharp, but this time she turned out pretty well.

[Redhorse]

And the Rio Grande Class Cruiser:

1926 Cruiser Plan 3, Republic of Texas Heavy Cruiser laid down 1927

Displacement:
13,325 t light; 13,889 t standard; 14,916 t normal; 15,737 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(583.10 ft / 565.00 ft) x 70.00 ft x (24.00 / 25.04 ft)
(177.73 m / 172.21 m) x 21.34 m x (7.32 / 7.63 m)

Armament:
8 - 8.00" / 203 mm 55.0 cal guns - 276.33lbs / 125.34kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1927 Model
4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 53.0 cal guns - 115.76lbs / 52.51kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
8 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
4 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 14.29lbs / 6.48kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1923 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 3,194 lbs / 1,449 kg
Main Torpedoes
6 - 21.0" / 533 mm, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m torpedoes - 1.331 t each, 7.985 t total
In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes
2nd Torpedoes
6 - 21.0" / 533 mm, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m torpedoes - 1.331 t each, 7.985 t total
In 1 sets of deck mounted reloads

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 8.00" / 203 mm 367.25 ft / 111.94 m 10.04 ft / 3.06 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 8.00" / 203 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 8.00" / 203 mm
2nd: 6.00" / 152 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -

- Box over machinery & magazines:
2.00" / 51 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 8.00" / 203 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 67,657 shp / 50,472 Kw = 28.00 kts
Range 7,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,848 tons

Complement:
674 - 877

Cost:
£3.904 million / $15.614 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 958 tons, 6.4 %
- Guns: 932 tons, 6.3 %
- Weapons: 26 tons, 0.2 %
Armour: 2,709 tons, 18.2 %
- Belts: 1,240 tons, 8.3 %
- Armament: 768 tons, 5.1 %
- Armour Deck: 598 tons, 4.0 %
- Conning Tower: 104 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 2,136 tons, 14.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,522 tons, 50.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,591 tons, 10.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
23,052 lbs / 10,456 Kg = 90.0 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 2.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
Metacentric height 3.7 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 15.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.42
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.04

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a straight bulbous bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / 0.556
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.07 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.77 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.00 ft / 0.91 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 26.15 ft / 7.97 m, 21.39 ft / 6.52 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 21.39 ft / 6.52 m, 16.64 ft / 5.07 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 16.64 ft / 5.07 m, 16.64 ft / 5.07 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 16.64 ft / 5.07 m, 16.64 ft / 5.07 m
- Average freeboard: 18.68 ft / 5.69 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 66.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 134.3 %
Waterplane Area: 27,602 Square feet or 2,564 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 150 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 194 lbs/sq ft or 946 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.58
- Longitudinal: 2.34
- Overall: 1.64
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room

[Redhorse]

A 6' secondary armament for a ship of this type is wholly out of question, which, I'd presume your Texian admirals would've told you. The reason is very simple: there's no way to differentiate between an 8" and a 6" shell splash. And, if you got 6" in addition, then your captains and admirals would be only too tempted to use them also on surface tarhets, making spotting extremely difficult.
5" is the biggest size I'd opt for, and you've got the 5/25 that I drew for the Northamptons to select. Since it's built in the US, and at the same time as the Northamptons, I'd settle for only four, as in their USN cousins. Also, I don't see any reason for your aft FCS atop the low tripod mast. I'd use that platform as an open AA-platform.
Finally, I'd cover the bridges with removable plastic window panes, as was done in the contemporary US cruisers.

On the 6" secondary armament - there simply isn't a good dual purpose gun available in 1926. The Americans had just approved the 5"/25 for service, and Texans probably weren't aware of it when they sat down at the drawing board. It must also be remembered that the world's first rate navies aren't building any new capital ships at this time...the Washington Naval Treaty forbids it, so I had trouble finding suitable ordnance for the ships. The 6"/53 was fitted knowing it would be replaced and would never fire at aircraft.

Since I have a limited number of large-gun capital ships, the aft FCS stays for survivability. If I lose this ship, I don't have the shipyard space to replace it without going to another country for construction.

[bezobrazov]

Ok, take a look at my AU: Royal Hellenic Cruiser Force, and look at the Psara. She has the 5in/50 HA-gun. Also, I don't agree with you, Redhorse. I believe by 1926, the existence of the 5/25 would've been known by the Texians; in particular since your ships are built in US yards! In other words, you can very assuredly use it. ( but I'd not put more than four, to follow suit with the USN.)

[Trojan]

Wonderful drawings as always Redhorse. Why not use the 5"/51 caliber guns common to US battleships of the time as their secondaries, or even the 4"/50 caliber Mark 9 gun though. You are going to replace them with dual purpose guns either away eventually, and if 5"/25s aren't available, a smaller caliber anti-surface gun, that isn't as close in size to the main battery, should be applicable in a time period where many still didn't take the naval strike power of aircraft seriously.

[emperor_andreas]

Beautiful! I can't wait to see more of this AU, especially the WWII years!