Grays Harbor Designs

[Zephyr]

Two things.

1.) This is my "archive" thread. The discussion thread for my ships is HERE. I have asked people, and even posted it in the very first post of this thread, to use that one for discussion, not this one. The Orion has been up in the discussion thread for some time now so there has been ample opportunity to comment on it.(EDIT: moved here by the friendly mod team so no longer applicable)

2.) I appreciate your taking the time to do that, however, I also have done that for the Orion, and I came up with entirely different set of results.

Orion, Grays Harbor Armored Cruiser laid down 1911

Displacement:
9,962 t light; 10,595 t standard; 11,880 t normal; 12,908 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
500.00 ft / 500.00 ft x 58.00 ft (Bulges 60.00 ft) x 22.00 ft (normal load)
152.40 m / 152.40 m x 17.68 m (Bulges 18.29 m) x 6.71 m

Armament:
4 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns in single mounts, 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1911 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
Main guns limited to end-on fire
12 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1911 Model
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
10 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1911 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1911 Model
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
on side ends, evenly spread
8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
Weight of broadside 5,328 lbs / 2,417 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 125

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 6.00" / 152 mm 300.00 ft / 91.44 m 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 80.00 ft / 24.38 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
120.00 ft / 36.58 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 9.00" / 229 mm 5.00" / 127 mm 9.00" / 229 mm
2nd: 4.00" / 102 mm - -

- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 8.00" / 203 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 3 shafts, 34,209 shp / 25,520 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 9,500nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,313 tons

Complement:
568 - 739

Cost:
£1.102 million / $4.410 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 666 tons, 5.6 %
Armour: 3,677 tons, 31.0 %
- Belts: 1,233 tons, 10.4 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 1,144 tons, 9.6 %
- Armour Deck: 1,210 tons, 10.2 %
- Conning Tower: 90 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 1,388 tons, 11.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,231 tons, 35.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,918 tons, 16.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
13,570 lbs / 6,155 Kg = 15.7 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 1.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.01
Metacentric height 2.2 ft / 0.7 m
Roll period: 16.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 58 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 1.80
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.48

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.630
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.33 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.36 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 39
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -2.00 degrees
Stern overhang: -4.00 ft / -1.22 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 23.00 ft / 7.01 m
- Forecastle (27 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Mid (50 %): 25.00 ft / 7.62 m
- Quarterdeck (21 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Stern: 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Average freeboard: 21.10 ft / 6.43 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 160.9 %
Waterplane Area: 21,810 Square feet or 2,026 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 115 lbs/sq ft or 561 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.79
- Longitudinal: 1.83
- Overall: 0.86
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[eltf177]

Sorry, won't bother you again.

[Zephyr]

It is not "bothering", I just ask that you post your critiques in the right place, which is here. That's why I created this particular thread for my ships.

[KHT]

Zephyr, how come the Composite strength is 0,86, and SS doesn't seem to have an issue with it? Had it been a destroyer I wouldn't have reacted, but it seems strange for an armoured cruiser.

[Zephyr]

Not a clue. I just plug the numbers in, what SS does from there is a mystery to me. O.o

[KHT]

I'm just wondering, how many times have you used springsharp? Reading it more thouroghly, I noticed a few other errors, which are quite normal for people who hasn't used it a lot. Since I don't know how much you've used Springsharp, I'll post this as a general guide, going through the most basic issues newbies often bump into. If you're not new to SS, please don't take this the wrong way.
___
The main armament should be mounted in two-gun or twin mounts, not singles. Neither should they be raised/superfiring.
The casemate secondaries shouldn't be raised mounts either. They're currently on deck level. If they are hull-mounted(which is standard for casemate mounts, but not the case here) they should be set to Bellow deck.
There are more of these errors regarding the rest of the artillery, but these should be easy to pick up on.
___
The other three issues are: Composite Strength/Hull Strength should always be 1.0, unless it a destroyer or something smaller, when it can creep down to 0.51. Hull strength is raised by adding displacement and saving weights in different ways(i.e. less armour, speed, guns).
The other is recoil effect. Any higher than 0.99 will restrict the firing arcs(and even that is very high, as Elft pointed out). You have 1.8. Way too much. If you look in the report, under the main artillery it says "Main guns limited to end-on fire".
And lastly, the third: the Block Coefficient. This one is less severe than the others, but it's still something good to take into consideration when designing the ship. For a battleship the absolute max BC should be 0.650. For a cruiser, 0.550, and for a destroyer, 0.450. BC is lessened by lowering the displacement, or giving the ship finer shapes.
___

[Zephyr]

Well, the main guns are obviously twin turrets, and i refered to them as such, so that is nothing more than a data entry "oops".

No clue how to cure a data entry firing arc. I don't see anything on there for that, either that or i am missing something. It should be rather apparent from their location that broadside fire is quite viable. I would also like to point out that the guns which are casemated are indeed listed as being casemate mounts, and the deck guns are listed as such as well.

The rest of your explanation, didn't know, so thanks.

EDIT:
Reworked SS with errors corrected.

Orion, Grays Harbor Armored Cruiser laid down 1911

Displacement:
13,217 t light; 13,921 t standard; 15,444 t normal; 16,662 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
500.00 ft / 500.00 ft x 78.00 ft x 22.00 ft (normal load)
152.40 m / 152.40 m x 23.77 m x 6.71 m

Armament:
4 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (2x2 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1911 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
12 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1911 Model
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
10 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1911 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1911 Model
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
on side ends, evenly spread
8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
Weight of broadside 5,328 lbs / 2,417 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 125

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 6.00" / 152 mm 300.00 ft / 91.44 m 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 80.00 ft / 24.38 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
120.00 ft / 36.58 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 9.00" / 229 mm 5.00" / 127 mm 9.00" / 229 mm
2nd: 4.00" / 102 mm - -

- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 8.00" / 203 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 3 shafts, 42,018 shp / 31,346 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 9,500nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,742 tons

Complement:
692 - 900

Cost:
£1.261 million / $5.043 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 666 tons, 4.3 %
Armour: 4,016 tons, 26.0 %
- Belts: 1,277 tons, 8.3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 1,004 tons, 6.5 %
- Armour Deck: 1,628 tons, 10.5 %
- Conning Tower: 107 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 1,705 tons, 11.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,830 tons, 44.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,227 tons, 14.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
26,757 lbs / 12,137 Kg = 31.0 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 3.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
Metacentric height 4.8 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 14.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 49 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.59
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.25

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.630
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.41 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.36 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 39
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -2.00 degrees
Stern overhang: -4.00 ft / -1.22 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 23.00 ft / 7.01 m
- Forecastle (27 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Mid (50 %): 25.00 ft / 7.62 m
- Quarterdeck (21 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Stern: 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Average freeboard: 21.10 ft / 6.43 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 69.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 177.6 %
Waterplane Area: 29,331 Square feet or 2,725 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 121 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 163 lbs/sq ft or 797 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.05
- Longitudinal: 2.32
- Overall: 1.13
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[KHT]

Looks much better!

Composite Strength/Hull Strength should always be 1.0

This means it should be exactly 1.0. If it's above 1.0 there's just a lot of extra displacement going to nothing(It's currently 1.13). By lowering the displacement(to the point of Hull Strength 1.0) you'll not only save weight, but the Block Coefficient will be lowered.

[Zephyr]

I'll most like get around to making those minor adjustments eventually, but right now i'm immersed in a scout cruiser class from 1910-15, and DD class from 1909. Working them up now, but it may be a several days before one of them is ready for posting here.

[Zephyr]

another thing I've been doodling on. Very much in the beginning stages right now.

Light Cruiser, early 30's.



7 x 6"/50 (1x3,2x2)